PPQ Adjustable Creep Conversion Guide

PPQ is the most versatile pistol for those who want to customize their pistol at home.  Not only can you customize your trigger pull weight, but you can also adjust the weight of the break.  And now, you can mod to have an adjustable creep as well.  Best of all, we can do this without grinding away any metal.  In this guide I’ll share with you how you can make your PPQ perform even better than the amazing pistol it already is.

Tools needed:
IMG_8435First you’ll need:

  1. set screw (2.5mm in size, 5mm or 0.2″ in length, 3mm also works)
  2. 2.5mm tap (also called the M2.5 x 0.45 tap, or M3 x 0.5 if you’re using 3mm)
  3. drill bit (2mm for M2.5, 2.5mm or #39 drill bit for M3)
  4. hex wrench (1.5mm)

** I used 3mm in my example because I just happen to have a bunch of 3mm set screws lying around

Difficulty: Moderate.  Involves using a drill press and a tap.  However, it’s much safer than many trigger jobs that may create irreversible results

DISCLAIMER: No matter how easy the job is, modifying your firearm involves risks that may result in injuries or death.  It will also void your warranty.  If in doubt, seek help from a professional.

DISCLAIMER 2: Any pistol with a trigger job performed should not be carried or used for self defense purpose.

Step 1:

Take apart your sear housing.  For more info on how to do this, refer to my PPQ Trigger Job Guide.

Follow the picture below and drill a hole through the sear housing

IMG_8430 textIMG_8418

You definitely do not want to drill a hole that’s tilted, so please use a drill press.  Do note that the hole is drilled horizontal to the gun.  The front side of the sear housing is slanted, so you will be drilling on a tilted surface.  I suggest drilling a pilot hole first with the drill perpendicular to the surface, or use a piloting bit if available.

Step 2:

Run your tap through the hole.  Keep turning until the tip of your tap reaches the end of the hole but don’t tap all the way through.  You want to purposefully leave the hole really tight at the end so the screw will stay in place when submitted to vibrations.

Step 3:

Screw the set screw in place.  You should feel the screw tightening up a lot near the end, but if the hex wrench starts to bend due to stress, go back to step 2 and tap through a bit more and try again.

Stop when the set screw reaches the inside of the housing.  Here I show the screw sticking out by 0.5mm or so.   Once you reach this depth, unscrew until the set screw is aligned with the wall.  If any plastic is bulging out, you can shave it off with an Xacto knife.

IMG_8427

Step 4:

Calibrations, calibrations, calibrations.  First assemble the sear housing back into the frame.  Start with only a tiny bit of the set screw exposed.  Next, insert an empty magazine into the gun.  Now go through the following:

  1. Tighten the set screw by 1/4 turn
  2. Install the slide
  3. Rack the slide and lock it back with the slide release lever
  4. Hit the slide release lever, allow the slide to slap into battery with force **
  5. Pull the trigger as you feel the amount of creep present
  6. Remove the slide

** do not release the slide by hand. The point here is to exert the maximum amount of force on the frame to test for stability

Just repeat the above sequence until the sear does not engage after hitting the slide release lever, or if you pull the trigger all the way and cannot find the break.  When this happens, it means that the sear is too far in its resting position.  Simply loosen the set screw by 1/4 turn and keep testing at this position 10 more times to make sure that the gun is working properly.

IMG_8431

That’s it!  You’re now the proud owner of a pistol with an adjustable creep.

Results:

With a caliper I measured the creep before and after the mod.  And the results are:

Stock trigger: 1.2mm creep

Modified trigger: 0.45mm creep

The result is about 60% reduction.  I’m very happy with the result and couldn’t wait to test the new trigger.

Range Report:

I tested my mod at the range and pumped 200 rounds into steel with much delight.  Not one single failure.

Haven’t been shooting for a few months but getting 2.5″ groups with this trigger was pretty easy.

IMG_8438

Hope you’ll find this guide useful!  Feel free to contact me if you have any questions regarding the procedure.

 

 

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17 thoughts on “PPQ Adjustable Creep Conversion Guide

    • Hey Kai,
      There are two options available. First is the recoil management systems by BTW and DPM. They’re guide rods with dual springs and provide minimal effect. The real solution is to port the barrel. It requires a good gunsmith and will cost about 150.

      Of course, first you should try a rubber grip, such as the Butler Creek grip.

  1. Hi Lanzer,
    Love your blog. I’ve followed a lot of your instructions on my PPQ and PPS to improve both triggers.

    Just an idle thought, but what possibility do you see with making the PPQ design modular, like the P320? I can see integrating the trigger/sear group into a similar steel subframe like the P320 does, and then you would be able to swap grips, barrels and slides accordingly. Do you ever see Walther going in this direction?

    Best,
    Mark

    • Since the P320 did won the MHS competition earlier this year, other companies might consider following their design philosophy.

      But outside of military, I don’t see versatility being a big draw simply because consumers typically look for a “best configuration scenario” such as carrying a subcompact at a certain weight, or range plinking with a setup for ease and accuracy. Once those requirements are met, setups are not often switched in and out. Enthusiasts enjoy variety and being able to shoot different guns on the spot, and I wouldn’t expect most to enjoy swapping slides at the shooting range.

      It leaves competitors who might want a pistol for different calibers, though I often wonder if the savings of $300 or so would convince shooters to own one and a half pistol versus two pistols.

      I think there’s a good chance that a number of companies might go this route, though I don’t see that many shooters being excited over this trend.

  2. having reduced the creep that much, how much risk does this give for an ad when the pistol is violently drawn from the holster?

    • The creep is adjustable, so one would adjust to whatever activity it sees fit. Forum members had adjusted it for competitions with great results. Lastly, if your finger is on the trigger while drawing from holster, you’re doing it wrong. Otherwise, recoil is way more powerful than a jerk from your arm to make the reduced creep a problem.

  3. A friend showed me a PPQ M2 he had just purchased and it had the best trigger I ever felt on a factory gun. I immediately bought one for myself, but it had more than 2mm creep! I installed the set screw you described – a 15 minute job in a machine shop – and now it has an even better trigger than my friend’s. To accomplish this adjustment without removing a huge amount of metal from the sear or sear link would have been impossible. As a merchant, I wondered whether I should even offer this model, so I called Walther USA CS, who assured me that excessive trigger creep could be removed, but the CS rep didn’t know how it is done. I then wrote to the designer, who offered the same assurance – but what purchaser would want to be without the gun for an extended period, even if Walther could address the problem? I’m not willing to do it for new firearms; even though the job was trivial, it would not only void the warranty, but also expose me to liability issues. Not sure what to do!

    • It’s unfortunate that the creep would be different from the manufacturing process. That having said, these types of differences are not surprising for other manufacturers also, especially given the price of the PPQ. Most of us are lucky with a pretty low creep from factory, and it’s concerning that it seemed like the more recent PPQ have a longer creep. I sure hope that isn’t the case. I have faith that if Walther knows about a quality problem with the creep, that they will address it soon.

  4. Did you find a sweetspot so it wouldnt be too creepy ?
    At the moment i have a length of 2.8mm of distance (single action lever (32.1) to the end of the frame).
    Can i turn it further or is it good the way it is ?

    Seems that “Walther” has reproduced your !!! invention. I bought a new sear housing with adjustible creep made by them (Q5 champion).
    Hope your concept is protected by patent if not hurry up 🙂

    i’m a 2nd-language speaker

    • The sweetspot for me is when the gun is still safe. 🙂 So basically, keep lowering the creep until the sear would fail to engage when the slide goes into battery. When that happens, just keep adding more creep back in until the sear stays in place. Another way to check is to hit the slide with a mallet while the sear is engaged. When it’s done right, you should hardly feel the creep being there. Overturning the creep adjustment is not dangerous, it just means that the striker is not engaged by the sear after every shot. Have fun tuning!

    • Funny… the head tech at Walther USA swore that they had never used a set screw to obtain the remarkable trigger on the early PPQ-M2s. I asked him what he would do if a gun I acquired for resale had a bad trigger and he said to send it to Walther and they’d fix it. But how? He didn’t know. There’s nothing you can grind or adjust to fix the creep – the only thing that could ever work is the set screw, which would create liability issues. It would be smarter for them to modify the polymer housing with a boss to limit the trigger motion. Then they could just replace the whole group. BTW, Walther doesn’t sell the individual trigger group components; if you destroy one of the parts you have to buy the whole group for $95. (It looks like something that should cost about $5 to manufacture.)

  5. I did Lanzer’s trigger job my on my PPQ-M2 (see my notes, above) and just used it to pass my NRA Pistol Instructor Qualification. For me, it’s all about trigger control. I balanced the trigger return spring and the set screw so that I have zero creep and about a 2.5 – 3-lb pull. Any lighter and it’s too touchy for me – I risk firing before I’m quite ready. This is a gun I would NEVER carry, and only draw from holster when required for Course of Fire qualifications. I will not do similar trigger jobs for customers unless they sign an agreement to never carry the modified gun. My EDC is a Sig 938 with a 5-lb trigger and 1 mm creep. It’s very easy to adjust the trigger on that gun – it’s basically a 1911 – but that’s what I think is safe for carrying.

    • Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I agree that anytime a pistol is modded for a lighter trigger it automatically disqualifies the pistol to be a self defense pistol. I’ll add a second disclaimer to this post to elaborate your point.

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